It's been a while since I've posted, but honestly, after 18 years (or is it 19 this year??) of rehab, I've been taking it sort of easy. That's a lie. Truth be told, I've got a few projects to put in here that hopefully will be useful to some someday, or maybe sooner. So, I'm going to add a post here and you'll have to bear with me, it'll be a longer one (like most of mine are)...
Ever since we purchased our 1967 42 aft cabin, the stairs to the aft cabin (along with the rest of the boat really) were in need of attention. They never really felt quite right, but somehow, they didn't get to the top of a long list of things to do... probably for two reasons. 1. At first glance, I couldn't figure out how to get them out, and 2. you use them all the time... if I take them out, how do you get down there? So, they sat... for a long while - too long, because near the end of last year's boating season, they failed. I made an emergency trip to Home Depot one night after arriving at the boat and put in a janky (but fully functional) fix for the stairs until the season ended.
I should probably rewind a bit more and explain a bit more my situation. If you've read my posts / stories from the past, or if you've been in the club long enough, you've probably heard of or met my dad - Clif Orphal. He and my mom were proud owners of a 1966 38 Commander, and he was the one that taught me a lot about how to redo the woodwork in our 42. Along with his teaching, he also was a supplier of all things woodwork for the boat. Rotted this, broken that (we had our fair share of both), dad was there to remake it, exactly as it was, or in the case of our galley cabinetry and aft deck seating - take my ideas and turn them into amazing reality.
Unfortunately, in November of 2023, my dad passed away unexpectedly - you may recall a nice article in our Styled in Fiberglass newsletter about his passing. Dad was a woodworker by hobby until the very end, and when he passed, I inherited all of his woodworking equipment - a lot of equipment and tools that I had seen dad use over the years, but had never really touched any of it. My role on our boat was primarily stripping, sanding, staining, varnishing, and varnishing, and varnishing. It wasn't until replacing the toe rail a few years ago that I actually did some woodworking on my own...
So, here I am with broken stairs, and the guy that would normally be helping to remake them is not there to help out. With that in mind, here are some pictures and some details on this project - my first real remake project on my own. I could imagine based on the issues that I've had, that someone else out there will need to do what I've had to do on our 42.
ABOVE: Yes, look around the stairs and you'll see that the woodwork is just a little different, as in it's all been refinished by me over the years. The stairs looked largely like this when we purchased the boat in 2006. Rather than deal with the failing finish, previous owners elected to cover the stairs and floors with carpet and paint the interior of the boat white. In this picture you can see some remnants of the carpet, and white paint that I had torn out / scraped off.
ABOVE: Upon closer inspection (and if you zoom in or open the picture up), you can see that on the first step down, one of the bronze fasteners holding the step up has decided to come out and see what it's like in the world. I don't mind its curiosity... I mean when it was put in at the factory back in 1967, the boat looked a LOT different than it does now. You can see that the step sagged about 1/2' in the front, pushing down on not only the riser under it, but also causing the back of the second step to sag as well... which means that there were a lot of issues.
ABOVE: To round it out, the second step. So, as you can see it was a mess, and about the time that I took these pictures last August to try and start figuring this issue out, the stairs failed altogether. I used some pieces of wood to create two treads over these two to last us through the end of last season. For two months the stairs were the least attractive part of the boat by far - so janky, that I never even took a picture of my handy work to document it.
ABOVE: Fast forward to October of last year. I was at a loss on how to get the stairs out. On the 42, if you go into the engine room behind the port engine, you'll find what looks like the backside of the stairs... but no... the wood doesn't match up, and it's not even the right thickness - 3/8" or 1/2" plywood I believe, not the solid mahogany that makes up the stairs. Okay... So, I posted a message on FB and low and behold, a fellow Commander Club member posted back telling me to just take the screws out and the stair assembly would just lift out. Hmmm... Upon closer inspection I found what had been sort of hiding behind dark stain and left over paint. Bungs... well, I'll be...
ABOVE: In this picture (and the one above), you can see that I just pulled out the two second tread and riser (fairly easily considering the failure). You can see the bung holes that I drilled out as well... they are staggered and go around the top two or so inches of the side panels and the first riser. Removing these, and a cutting off a few fasteners that attached back of the port side panel to the bulkhead that cannot be accessed, allowed the assembly to be easily lifted out.
ABOVE: Stairs removed. You'll note that the bottom tread and two risers remain. These are separate from the stair assembly that was removed and will remain in place.
ABOVE: My daughter offering a helping hand to cut a board. Fast forward to this past weekend. Since I removed the stairs in fall, I worked really hard on getting my unfinished basement divided into two parts... a living area that we'll use for TV, foosball, darts, shuffleboard, and general hanging out, and a shop / storage area. I had to put up two walls, a door, run the vac system ports, and run electric (thanks to my son and a close family friend). About a week ago, I finally got all of my dad's equipment and tools organized and sort of put away... enough to allow me to start the stair project in my newly created shop. With the boating season just about 4 weeks away (Come on spring!!!!), It was finally time to get going. I enlisted my daughter to help make a cut of the 10" x 10' mahogany board to make it manageable for me.
ABOVE: Flat boards!. After rough cutting the 10' board into 8 pieces that would make up the stair assembly, I needed to correct the cup that my board had in it. I used a thickness sander to accomplish that. Because of the cup, I ended up with boards that were slightly less thick than the originals, but only by a very little bit (maybe 1/16 to 1/8") and that I can deal with the same way that CC used to correct small variances around the stairs - with shims.
Above: Doweling the side panels. The original side panels to the stair assembly were made from a single piece of 3/4' mahogany plywood. Two things here... First, where the fasteners were placed, I think there was a possibility of failure of the plywood (I saw this on at least one fastener location), and second, I didn't have any 3/4" marine grade mahogany plywood laying around. So, I used my 10" wide solid mahogany board, doweled, and glued two boards together, and voila! New side panels. You can see the jig I used in the picture above as well. I used 5/16" dowels, three on each side panel.
ABOVE: Side panel glue up. Dad always told me that you could never have enough clamps as a woodworker... I believe him! After doweling, I used Titebond III waterproof interior/exterior wood glue to put them together.
ABOVE: Ideas - in marker. So, like my dad, I approached this wood project as I would any other project (I'm a project manager by profession) ... think about it and make an educated decision on how to do it... not going at it with no plan. Part of my thought process was to use the original design and look, but improve on the performance. Glueing the assembly together can certainly help (no glue in the original), but using a dado to set the treads into the side panels, as well as the use of more fasteners for them would certainly help as well. Anyway, you can see the crudely drawn idea above.
ABOVE: Front of the stair assemblies. This is just a dry fit, but you can see... pretty much an exact copy from the looks. What you can't really see in this picture, but I'll show later... I rounded over the nose of each of the two treads... just like the originals.
ABOVE: The back sides of the assemblies. I will reuse one piece of wood that was used to tie the second riser and second tread together... you can see the light spot on the original stairs where a long 3/4" square piece was used. It was very effective in keeping the two together and it wasn't damaged, so it'll live on. Also, if you look closely on the back of the new remakes, you'll see the dados used on the side panels that the stairs insert into. This should make a pretty solid, and long-lasting set of stairs.
WHATS NEXT?
With the dry fit done, I'm going to use pilot holes and countersink the new fasteners (outside ones) so the heads of the new fasteners (stainless steel) will sit flush. I'll also mark out a pattern for the fasteners that hold the stairs in place (inside ones) and prep for the mahogany bungs.
Additionally, I'll be making insets for black rubber diamond pattern anti-slip strips. They'll match what my dad has already done on the rest of the stairs and helm footrest in the boat. A little trickier on the last step as I don't think I can get out as far to the edge as I'd like, even with a smaller router, so I might have to do some carving.
After that, when I'm able to get to the boat, I'll tape off then strip and sand the bottom tread and two risers that are built into the boat... that can't be easily removed. Then it's just a matter of inserting the new stair assembly, bunging, sanding a bit, then stain, and do my varnish routine that I've done literally everywhere else in the boat. lol.
Stay tuned, I'll get another update in here as I get towards spring with the prep, installation, and the finished product. Needless to say, now that I've managed to make my own stairs, I'm pretty excited to get them installed!
Chris Orphal
1967 42 Commander
"What If..."
First class work as always. Hard to believe its been 25 years since you bought the dust bowl. Your dedication is remarkable.
I had to rebuild the teak steps and risers of my stairs coming into the main salon which were broken and a large guest finally went through them. Given the quality of most CC times I was surpise how poorly they were made. Just #10 wood screws with no cleats or dados. Luckily a large architectuctural wood shop and supplier to Tiara had scraps in the right thickness and they cut them to size and routed the front edges. They were so nice to do this little job. Given it is free standing I was able to access the inside and supported the junction of the risers and steps with angle aluminim and wood cleats on the edeges of the steps. Solid. Good thing they were not glued.
Steps going to the V berth are hinged to access the engine room are fine although need refinsishing, project #197, and the steps to the rear staterooms and head are fixed like yours. Acceptable for now but carpeted because they have had a thousand staples in them throughout the years.
Mike,
Dedication or craziness... take your pick! For those of us that have continued to be stewards of our Commanders, I think it's a bit of both.
I totally agree... The design of the stairs left a little to be desired.. I was able to improve without much change. But then again, as Dick Avery said, they designed them to last 13 years. My stairs gave out in year 57... so I guess I won't complain. The good news is, I won't worry about them ever again!
I am a bit concerned about how the 3rd built-in step is going to look once I get all of the paint, remaining staples, and varnish off of them and get them sanded down. I know that thier location, and the darker stain will hide a lot though... It'll just be part of the story of the boat.
Looks good! And that dedication or craziness comment definitely speaks to my description that "some projects get completed out of pure stubbornness and refusal to get someone else to come do it even if I didn't know what I was doing when I started".
A bit more of an update after a day's work on the non-skid for the stairs.
ABOVE: Channels for the non-skid. The non-skid material is rubber with a small diamond pattern to it. In order to keep it from going anywhere, and to match what my dad had done with the rest of the steps in the boat, I made 3 inserts into each tread. The drop was a bit more than 1/16", and it allows just the diamond patter to be above the surface of the wood. This picture is taken prior to using a chisel to square off the ends.
ABOVE: Flush non-skid. After squaring off the ends of the channels, I then cut strips of the rubber non-skid material. As you can see, just the diamond pattern is above the surface of the wood. I'll use contact cement to put it in place once the stairs have been put in place, stained, and varnished to match the rest of interior of the boat.
ABOVE: The unfinished product. Still need to finish sand and use fasteners to put the assembly together.
Stay tuned...
Hi Chris. Your dad would be so proud. I know he was there with you the entire way. Cheers
I like the inset non-skid idea. Not sure what material you used but make sure it is adhered with something that is removable. I put new 3M diamond adhesive backed material for the step pads that are on the inset of the hull and they are already worn after one summer of use. Disapointing given the originals lasted 40+ years before becoming an eyesore.
Nice Work!
They'll serve your family well an probably last another 56 years!
Mike Watson... The material I'm using is a larger sheet of rubber material. It's probably a bit more than 1/8" thick. I'll put it down with contact cement. The other strips of it we have on the other steps in the boat have held up well for the past 5-7 years. I only have one that came up, but that was more of a me error on how I applied the adhesive.
Thanks to all for the positive comments. It's been a fun project, not without a little emotion involved.
A small update...
We were out at the boat this weekend for the first time. Luckily we were given a spot in the shop to get our "new" mufflers put on. In order to do that, I kind of needed to get the aft stairs in. So, off to the boat with my fresh made stairs. A little bit of sanding and they slipped right in!
ABOVE: Like a glove! Yeah, that last original finish and abused step really stands out now... so you get the trifecta. The last bit of originally finished wood from when the boat was made, the refinished wood that reflects how the rest of the boat looks now, and the fresh, not yet finished mahogany of the new stair assembly. Coming together nicely, but I do note that I need to take about 1/8" or so off the height of the stairs so they meet up even with the salon floor. An easy enough adjustment. I think I walked up and down those steps about 10 or so times... each time with a huge smile on my face. Probably going to be like all they way up until the end of the season... lol
C.
Hi Chris,
Nice work!
I have a 1973 410. Have looked at removing the steps into the aft cabin, but have not tried to do it. Looking to get access to the built in fresh water tank that leaks. Do you suppose they come out like yours did? Will be going up to the lake for the first time this season n a week or so. Will look at them more closely.
John Brock
73 410 Commander
After the weekend, another update....
We were lucky enough to get into the water this weekend after getting replacement mufflers, all new exhaust hose, and new hose clamps done... but that's another post. After the boat was in, I was off to continue the work on the aft stairs. Time to get the last step and two risers taken care of. Here are some pics...
ABOVE: Staples out... or so I thought. All the tools of the trade to get the last of the carpet staples out of our boat. I don't know how many there were here, but I'm going to guess north of 50. Some needed a lot of coaxing, some wanted to stay in. In any case, most came out, and the ones I could grab, I hammered in so the scraper and sander wouldn't catch them. You can clearly see here the remants of the white paint that was used to coat pretty much the entire interior of our boat. Grr... with 1967 being the only year with a wood interior, it was important for me to let it be seen. You can see on either side of that last step the finished product of much earlier work.
ABOVE: Staples out, and ready to strip.
ABOVE: Tucked in, stripping away... That's pretty much where I lived for the weekend. not the most space, and a few cramps along the way, but enough room to get the job done without too much difficulty.
ABOVE: Stripped.
ABOVE: Mostly sanded stairs. A little more to go... I'm not so happy about the staple stains, but I have to keep in mind at this point that the wood is still damp from soaking it with stripper to get the now 58-year-old varnish off. As I stripped the wood, I can see that I could pretty easily replace the step (I'd have to make a new one), and probably the other two risers... But, I also know that this bottom step and where it's located is not bathed in light, and will also have a darker stain on it. I decided to let thigns sit for the week and go back out and reassess. I'm not excited about having to make a replacement for a marginal gain in appearance. Pondering...
C.
1967 42 Commander
"What If..."
A week off doing the normal job thing and it was back out to the boat this weekend to install. While at home during the week, I took apart the stair assembly and applied a 50% cut of varnish to the backsides of all of the pieces to seal them up. The dried over the week, and out to the boat we went...
ABOVE: Installed stairs. The band of fasteners around the top edge that locks the stair assembly into place were put in, then those were bunged and sanded flush.
ABOVE: Yours truly, staining. A note here... My father is the guy that taught me all I know about woodwork, and specifically refinishing the interior of our boat - my biggest project. My parents owned "Seaquel", a 1966 38 Commander (Express). Dad refinished the entire interior of their boat, and so when we came across out boat, I had the confidence that I could do this too. Dad used a filler stain from a company called "Velvit Oil", and specifically a color called "Warm Cherry". I really liked it, and so I purchased the same and continued to use it as I stripped down and refinished every part of our boat. I was mostly done, when I went to check my supplies for this stair assembly and much to my dismay, the stain had succumbed to air, and had dried up. No problem, I'll order more. Problem... the company went ouf of business several years ago. Fortunately the guy that ended up buying my parent's 38 was looking to replace the helm area sideboards... he needed stain. He and I talked and I informed him about Velvit Oil no longer existing, and that I was going to be looking for a replacement. He went into action, and sent a mail to the company's Facebook page (still out there)... by some chance, someone wrote back and gave him an alternative - General Finishes Oil Based Wood Stain in Warm Cherry... as you can see in the picture above, it's pretty much an exact match. No need to mix up a color. Happy... yes. Very!
ABOVE: Stained, and awaiting varnish. In this picture, it's easy to see the tracks that will be home to the treads once the stairs are done being varnished.
Next Steps...
The stairs will dry over the week while we are back home. When I go out this Friday, I'll start the process of varnishing. I won't put a ton of pics out for the whole process (kind of boring), but I'll share a few. I expect this to take two weeks, and we should be good - assuming the weather cooperates with my plans. Damp weather extends the time for the varnish to dry. If it's dry weather, I could be lucky enough to get two of the earlier coats on in a day.
That's it for now!
C.