1973 47 Commander Exhaust connections from muffler replacements

Hello.  Just had a conversation with a fellow Commander owner and he strongly recommended  that I replace the couplers and clamps between the exhaust pipe and the mufflers.  

Well, how do I get access to those places -  I'm thinking that they are outboard of the fuel tanks.  Can anyone give me some advice as to how to proceed?

Thanks in advance for any assistance

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I agree and don't know your set up/access but the 26th is less than two weeks away.  Its far more than a weekend job.  

Timothy "Tim" Miller said:

Dennis,  welcome back, I think the harbor and their liability coverage would be my route. 

Tim

Mike and Scott, I looked at the starboard side -- Enclosed are pictures of the muffler area.  The muffler is a fiberglass one, and I'm not sure if that is a replacement or was part of the original construction  -- I'm thinking the mufflers were replaced in 87 when the then current owner repowered with 3208 TA Cats.  If I had the engine room open, I would have started from scratch  -- It looks like the exhaust port of the muffler goes into the aft exhaust tube and the "new" hose (black) slid over the exhaust tube with an existing sheath(?) .  I need to replace two of the host clamps but it does not look like there is any rot on the hose.  I'll check the other side next week.  Also, I looked into the exhaust for both sides, and there is no space between the exhaust hose and the muffler  -- It looks like the muffler is inserted into the exhaust hose.  Pictures are enclosed

Mike Watson said:

Dennis,

I just did my port side this winter.  No small task due to access.  All of the exhaust was put in before the tanks and woodwork for the cabin.  Ours is a 76 with Cummins. We have the double bed on the port side and the single on the starboard.  If your boat is not in the water yet you can reach in about 2' through the exhaust with a camera and take a picture of the space between the end of the muffler and the 6" fiberglass tube.  That space of exposed tube is only about 3/4" and where the  water lays it rots.  We had small leak in the port side.  While the starboard side should have been replaced, it wasn't leaking there was no access without tearing apart the teak cabinetry next to the bed. I filled the space of the rear connection with 5200 which should do the trick for a while.  Replaced with 6" silicone hose.  I've got some pictures I could post and layout what I did to get them on.  In the meantime you can give me a call to discuss.

Mike

269.929.6738    

I lightened the image up so you can see it more clearly.



Dennis Bosak said:

Mike and Scott, I looked at the starboard side -- Enclosed are pictures of the muffler area.  The muffler is a fiberglass one, and I'm not sure if that is a replacement or was part of the original construction  -- I'm thinking the mufflers were replaced in 87 when the then current owner repowered with 3208 TA Cats.  If I had the engine room open, I would have started from scratch  -- It looks like the exhaust port of the muffler goes into the aft exhaust tube and the "new" hose (black) slid over the exhaust tube with an existing sheath(?) .  I need to replace two of the host clamps but it does not look like there is any rot on the hose.  I'll check the other side next week.  Also, I looked into the exhaust for both sides, and there is no space between the exhaust hose and the muffler  -- It looks like the muffler is inserted into the exhaust hose.  Pictures are enclosed

Mike Watson said:

Dennis,

I just did my port side this winter.  No small task due to access.  All of the exhaust was put in before the tanks and woodwork for the cabin.  Ours is a 76 with Cummins. We have the double bed on the port side and the single on the starboard.  If your boat is not in the water yet you can reach in about 2' through the exhaust with a camera and take a picture of the space between the end of the muffler and the 6" fiberglass tube.  That space of exposed tube is only about 3/4" and where the  water lays it rots.  We had small leak in the port side.  While the starboard side should have been replaced, it wasn't leaking there was no access without tearing apart the teak cabinetry next to the bed. I filled the space of the rear connection with 5200 which should do the trick for a while.  Replaced with 6" silicone hose.  I've got some pictures I could post and layout what I did to get them on.  In the meantime you can give me a call to discuss.

Mike

269.929.6738    

Dennis,

From the pictures, hard to see, the hose and muffler look original.  The muffler is glass.  Also the hoses rot from the inside and look ok from the outside. 

Dennis Bosak said:

Mike and Scott, I looked at the starboard side -- Enclosed are pictures of the muffler area.  The muffler is a fiberglass one, and I'm not sure if that is a replacement or was part of the original construction  -- I'm thinking the mufflers were replaced in 87 when the then current owner repowered with 3208 TA Cats.  If I had the engine room open, I would have started from scratch  -- It looks like the exhaust port of the muffler goes into the aft exhaust tube and the "new" hose (black) slid over the exhaust tube with an existing sheath(?) .  I need to replace two of the host clamps but it does not look like there is any rot on the hose.  I'll check the other side next week.  Also, I looked into the exhaust for both sides, and there is no space between the exhaust hose and the muffler  -- It looks like the muffler is inserted into the exhaust hose.  Pictures are enclosed

Mike Watson said:

Dennis,

I just did my port side this winter.  No small task due to access.  All of the exhaust was put in before the tanks and woodwork for the cabin.  Ours is a 76 with Cummins. We have the double bed on the port side and the single on the starboard.  If your boat is not in the water yet you can reach in about 2' through the exhaust with a camera and take a picture of the space between the end of the muffler and the 6" fiberglass tube.  That space of exposed tube is only about 3/4" and where the  water lays it rots.  We had small leak in the port side.  While the starboard side should have been replaced, it wasn't leaking there was no access without tearing apart the teak cabinetry next to the bed. I filled the space of the rear connection with 5200 which should do the trick for a while.  Replaced with 6" silicone hose.  I've got some pictures I could post and layout what I did to get them on.  In the meantime you can give me a call to discuss.

Mike

269.929.6738    

Mike,

Those hoses are likely 35yrs old and some might even still be original. Going by how a hose, especially an exhaust hose by the outside doe not tell you what is really going on as the hoses tend to deteriorate from the inside out.

A failed exhaust hose is one of the quickest ways to put your boat on the bottom. This should really be part of a 20yr. major maintenance schedule, though very few do it.

Ron,

I agree 100%.  Not sure with all the pics you saw the one I took of the inside.  It's a difficult project.  Shouldn't be but access is terrible.  CC like many wasn't concerned about future maintenance.  I'll have to determine how to access the starboard without destroying the cabinetry. 

Don't know how many he told the story to but one year Dick and Patty almost had a major loss on their 47. Following spring launch and startup, the pumps came on. then again, and the third time, Dick went into mode. Sent their crewmember below to investigate who then came above and announced the rear stateroom was shipping water and to shut down the engine! 

Don't play with this project guys. Those clamps and hoses look original to me and the clamps are trash. replace all. 

Lee

It looked like Chris Craft used some kind of black sealer on my hoses, probably all that was holding some on as the clamps were no longer good.  I made my own extra-stout hose removal tools, normal ones were too flimsy to push sideways between the hose and pipe.  One tool I bought at NAPA broke from the effort, replaced the handle with Vice Grips.

My hose clamps looked in great shape, but a lot of them fell apart when I started turning them.  This is a '74 with 500-hours, that sat in indoor storage for decades, but the clamps still degraded.

We almost lost ours also do to the original exhaust hoses. Luckily we were onboard at the marine when the port hose failed. It failed behind the bedroom closet. We jammed a nerf football in the exhaust and had someone run to home depot and get cans of spray foam. Sprayed 3 cans of foam in there before we got the water to stop. The repair wasn't that difficult all the wall panels unscrew, we did have to pull wallpaper off to get to the screws. We had the port side out and back together in a Saturday. I used a fiberglass section because there was not enough room to fit the whole length back in. Good luck with it.

Attachments:

Dave, where is the long tube you are next to on the dock from?  And it looks like it is metal and enclosed in some sort of cover. Is this tube from the exhaust from the motor to the input to the muffler?  Also, where did you get the hose clamps  -- I've looked all over for that style and can't find them.   I keep looking at the pictures I took of the starboard side of my boat, and it looks to me that the black hose is installed over another one -- The boat was repowered in the late 80s so I'm wondering if the exhausts were replaced when the boat was repowered.  Unfortunately the owner who did the repower was killed in a car accident before he could put the boat back in the water after the repower, so there is no way that I can ask him.  I took some pictures of the inside of the exhaust and it looks to me like the muffler exhaust is inserted into the tube, and there isn't a gap between the muffler and the tube.  I'd like to know more about the failure mechanism  -- Can you call me to discuss what you learned and other insight that you have.  My boat is in the water, and it is staying there for the summer -- Not planning of hauling it unless shit hits the fan!!.  My ph # is 734 751 3669.  MI Thanks in advance.  Dennis



David Hiser said:

We almost lost ours also do to the original exhaust hoses. Luckily we were onboard at the marine when the port hose failed. It failed behind the bedroom closet. We jammed a nerf football in the exhaust and had someone run to home depot and get cans of spray foam. Sprayed 3 cans of foam in there before we got the water to stop. The repair wasn't that difficult all the wall panels unscrew, we did have to pull wallpaper off to get to the screws. We had the port side out and back together in a Saturday. I used a fiberglass section because there was not enough room to fit the whole length back in. Good luck with it.

I think you mean me on the hose clamps.  They are constant-tension bolt clamps, I bought all mine through McMaster-Carr.  You can get them cheaper, but there are so many junk and fake parts online now, I bit the bullet.  I also replaced my shaft logs and clamps, bilge pump hoses and clamps, and all the hoses and clamps on the engines.  $1,500 in hose clamps total.

hose clamps | McMaster-Carr

Dennis Bosak said:

Also, where did you get the hose clamps  -- I've looked all over for that style and can't find them.

Dennis, that is 6" exhaust hose with wire. It went from the muffler under the sink in the bathroom to the aft exhaust tube.

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