Hello all, recently I rebuilt the original Carters to include new check valve in bottom of fuel bowls. Upon re-install I did prime the bowls, and boom fired right up. Went back the next week and right back to the hard start. I refilled the bowls and fired right up. I have read the SuperDisc comments on this subject many times now. When thinking about evaporation, I can not get in my mind, when thinking about an old car sitting out in the yard, the heat under the hood should be more than in an engine room under a covered slip. Which leads me to a simple question. Why will the old car start and the boat won't?

I do not find a leak in the fuel system, but I am going to replace the filter and O ring and attempt to find a lose fitting or any other source for sucking air. I have read the "fixes" for this problem and may entertain installing a primer pump. But I would really like to solve the problem, however that will require actually finding the problem first. So my point of all this rambling is< has anyone ever found the culprit and developed a safe and reliable solution?

Thanks to you all, and happy boating!

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This seems to be a universal problem and I don't think it has anything to do with leaking.  The old car has a great deal of ventilation in it's "engine room" while the boat has a closed space and normal summer temperatures are favorable to evaporation of gasoline.  The configuration of a marine carb is different than a street carb and this may also be a cause.  Mostly,it is what it is and prepriming or switching to electric fuel pumps seems to be the only answer to extended cranking.

Tim

Do you have mechanical or electric fuel pumps? If you have electric why not just install a momentary switch like I did to prime the bowls before starting?

Tim, I understand that theory, I just don't want to accept it!  Steve, they are mechanical. What I would really like to do is design an electric on both somewhere in the supply line just to prime the bowls but not restrict the lines so that after priming they would have full flow into the mechanical pumps and run as they were designed. Any thoughts on how to manage this? 

Mark - you’d probably have to do this with a series of valves and a couple Y or T couplings. The process would probably consist of throwing a couple valves to isolate the electric pump, then activate with a momentary switch (like Steve mentioned. Actually, all us guys with electrics should have them since they’re connected to a oil pressure shutoff switch). I know a lot of diesel guys do this kind of setup.

You could probably even get away with small, in-line pumps since you’re only using it to prime. The correct setup for full time electric pump usage can be expensive by the time you buy the correct marine pumps, correct Racors, etc.

To the actual problem, I suspect it’s a combination of temperature and the angle at which our motors sit. A car motor doesn’t sit and the weird angles we have to use.

When you done the rebuild.. did you do the Morland mod on the secondary boosters air horn/ spray gasket??  This is a major culprit on the leak/dry down start up issue.  

His fix was a thicker gasket than the supplied rebuild kits.. Angles as well location they tend to dry out first.. by installing a better composition and thicker material it solved the issue.. 8.00 NAPA.

I must say, put them in mine when I rebuilt and for the next 3 years till we sold our 35,  after a 2 week set.. 3 FULL pumps and 1" throttle.. they usually fired rite up!!  

Captain  Mark  ........   Your mechanical fuel pumps also have check  valves  in them .   Both check valves  work together to prevent  fuel drain back in the fuel system and keep the carbs filled  .  If you switch  to electric fuel pumps  be aware of the anti - siphon device designed for your mechanical pumps & is not compatible for the  electric pumps  .

You will spend some time  with your tool  box if you switch to electric pumps  .

Tim

--------

Absolutely!  When you go up on Friday night or Saturday follow this simple solution and I guarantee you will never have a starting problem (as long as you have well tuned engines and good batteries).  Turn the engine over for six full seconds (think Mississippi's).  Do not touch the throttles during this process.  Now pump the throttles four full pumps and leave the throttle open 1/4 after the 4th pump.  Now turn the engines over and, if everything above is done just as instructed  the engines will start before you can say six "Mississippi's again.It took me 8 years of pumping and turning over before another member stated this formula.  It has worked perfect for me for the last 8 years.  As for that old car sitting out in the back yard, kind of like a Harley you probably had a routine that filled that bowl also.  Having only our air screens over our boat carbs in a very hot engine room after your weekend of boating those bowls evaporate easier than the car with a complete air cleaner covering the carb.  Remember, you have gas to the fuel pump due to gravity from your tanks.  All you are doing is working that pump for 6 full seconds and the bowls will fill.  Let me know how it works out!

Dave Wilson

42' Commander "Valhalla"

P.S. Once started after your week away this is only necessary on the initial start up of the weekend.

Thanks Captain Dave, I have read that remedy here. I attempted it once but could possibly not have counted my Mississippi's correctly. Most probable due to an over abundance of an alcohol related solution. I will however try it again. Thanks much Sir.

Dave Wilson said:

Absolutely!  When you go up on Friday night or Saturday follow this simple solution and I guarantee you will never have a starting problem (as long as you have well tuned engines and good batteries).  Turn the engine over for six full seconds (think Mississippi's).  Do not touch the throttles during this process.  Now pump the throttles four full pumps and leave the throttle open 1/4 after the 4th pump.  Now turn the engines over and, if everything above is done just as instructed  the engines will start before you can say six "Mississippi's again.It took me 8 years of pumping and turning over before another member stated this formula.  It has worked perfect for me for the last 8 years.  As for that old car sitting out in the back yard, kind of like a Harley you probably had a routine that filled that bowl also.  Having only our air screens over our boat carbs in a very hot engine room after your weekend of boating those bowls evaporate easier than the car with a complete air cleaner covering the carb.  Remember, you have gas to the fuel pump due to gravity from your tanks.  All you are doing is working that pump for 6 full seconds and the bowls will fill.  Let me know how it works out!

Dave Wilson

42' Commander "Valhalla"

P.S. Once started after your week away this is only necessary on the initial start up of the weekend.

Yes sir, I changed those valves on the rebuild. I don't want to go electric if at all possible. Thanks much

Tim Toth said:

Captain  Mark  ........   Your mechanical fuel pumps also have check  valves  in them .   Both check valves  work together to prevent  fuel drain back in the fuel system and keep the carbs filled  .  If you switch  to electric fuel pumps  be aware of the anti - siphon device designed for your mechanical pumps & is not compatible for the  electric pumps  .

You will spend some time  with your tool  box if you switch to electric pumps  .

Tim

--------

Oh my that does sound interesting. I have to say I have studied most of the Commander's work but this fix I have not seen. But I will go back and see if I can find it. Thank you very much!

C E Caron said:

When you done the rebuild.. did you do the Morland mod on the secondary boosters air horn/ spray gasket??  This is a major culprit on the leak/dry down start up issue.  

His fix was a thicker gasket than the supplied rebuild kits.. Angles as well location they tend to dry out first.. by installing a better composition and thicker material it solved the issue.. 8.00 NAPA.

I must say, put them in mine when I rebuilt and for the next 3 years till we sold our 35,  after a 2 week set.. 3 FULL pumps and 1" throttle.. they usually fired rite up!!  

Hi Matt, I was thinking that unless I could find a small electric primer pump that I could put inline, I would have to y pipe around and check valve a concoction to prime only. I would like to find a small pump that would still allow flow thru it when not in use. Have you ever seen anything like that?

Matt Cowles said:

Mark - you’d probably have to do this with a series of valves and a couple Y or T couplings. The process would probably consist of throwing a couple valves to isolate the electric pump, then activate with a momentary switch (like Steve mentioned. Actually, all us guys with electrics should have them since they’re connected to a oil pressure shutoff switch). I know a lot of diesel guys do this kind of setup.

You could probably even get away with small, in-line pumps since you’re only using it to prime. The correct setup for full time electric pump usage can be expensive by the time you buy the correct marine pumps, correct Racors, etc.

To the actual problem, I suspect it’s a combination of temperature and the angle at which our motors sit. A car motor doesn’t sit and the weird angles we have to use.

After some research I have found what I think is the solution to the problem. Airtex E8016S is an electric fuel pump that will allow fuel to flow thru when not activated. SO, I want to install the pump close to both tanks, and install momentary switch for priming operation. Once the bowls are full shut it off and fire up the horses! Any guidance and opinion as always is greatly appreciated.

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